Aukot rescues Kenia from a certain ‘Constitutional Crisis’

[RV Pundit]

Look like Raila will be no show.What a loser...denies us the chance for another dog beating

[bryan275]

It's time to break away from the criminals

[vooke]

Its jubilee who are not sure of what is going down.  They are all over the place trying to figure out what NASA will do next and scrambling with all kinds of solutions to a problem they have not yet figured out.  NASA has several options while Jubilee can only bank on rigged elections.  You take away the rigged or the elections from them and they do not know what to do.

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Babu ain't sure the exact implication of his abandonment is.

Should Aukot get his way, Babu will jet back in the next few hours

With Babu out of sight, the mass action are still born

But more importantly, Chebu is in court today, and tomorrow,Tuesday is Aukot's ruling interesting times

[vooke]

Kichwa-mmeza.
The ruling party had enough machinery to ensure the election takes place in hostile regions. The best thing that Raila could done is to use the momentum of election nullification to campaign very hard. I can tell you for free that jubilee has covered alot of ground since August 8th. Odm in Narok county and kajiado has literally crumbled and is significantly losing key supporters in their own strongholds. Jubilee has bought everybody. Destruction of property by odm goons during demostrations have not helped matters.You are high on weed to think that nasa still has a chance. Raila and his group are acutely aware that victory has slipped through their fingers and this the idea to boycott the election so they have a reason to claim that they were not defeated. 

I would like to believe you, but having been to mashinani and also through monitoring the overwhelming negative response to Jubilee's tweets, I tend to disagree.  And if Narok has crumbled under jubilee corruption, then it is fair to assume that Narok was not made for the fight for freedom that we face for lack of mettle.  They are flakes...and probably deserve the corruption that they will endure especially once Ruto gets his hands on the Mara.

BRYAN75,
Doesn't matter what ruto will or will not do. He already had a grip of the mara through the governor but you have to know that people a lot of time vote against tg heir self interest. The truth of the matterm is that all odm leaders in Narok have defected to JP. Former governor nkedienye a beloved odm member is defecting tomorrow. I have been in mashinani from the last campaigns upto now and I can tell you for free that the tide is drastically changing against nasa. Tribal and money numbers are hard to beat. Let's wait and see.

Difference between Ole and Kadam at measuring political temperatures among their kith and kin is Ole is on the ground and Kadam is not.

If Ole says tide is shifting, then it shifted long before he said so.

[Ole]

vooke,
I am being very objective here. I really don't have a horse in this race even though I was initially sympathetic to Baba. People feel like baba has lost significant goodwill support by constantly complaining and castigated anyone one site. Alot of people feel like alot of their valuable time is being lost by constant grandstanding. Raila cannot consolidate his own areas and is busy losing battleground counties. He should have hit the ground running right away and blame his opponents for botched election. But I do think he does not have money to run an efficient campaign. His innitial attempt at fundraising was not properly done. I really think he would boycott then claim that he won on August 8th. Jubilee on the other hand will not take any chance this time. They will claim victory even if baba sits this one out. I know it's not pleasant for many baba avid supporters but his quest for statehouse is coming to a complete end.

Kichwa-mmeza.
The ruling party had enough machinery to ensure the election takes place in hostile regions. The best thing that Raila could done is to use the momentum of election nullification to campaign very hard. I can tell you for free that jubilee has covered alot of ground since August 8th. Odm in Narok county and kajiado has literally crumbled and is significantly losing key supporters in their own strongholds. Jubilee has bought everybody. Destruction of property by odm goons during demostrations have not helped matters.You are high on weed to think that nasa still has a chance. Raila and his group are acutely aware that victory has slipped through their fingers and this the idea to boycott the election so they have a reason to claim that they were not defeated. 

I would like to believe you, but having been to mashinani and also through monitoring the overwhelming negative response to Jubilee's tweets, I tend to disagree.  And if Narok has crumbled under jubilee corruption, then it is fair to assume that Narok was not made for the fight for freedom that we face for lack of mettle.  They are flakes...and probably deserve the corruption that they will endure especially once Ruto gets his hands on the Mara.

BRYAN75,
Doesn't matter what ruto will or will not do. He already had a grip of the mara through the governor but you have to know that people a lot of time vote against tg heir self interest. The truth of the matterm is that all odm leaders in Narok have defected to JP. Former governor nkedienye a beloved odm member is defecting tomorrow. I have been in mashinani from the last campaigns upto now and I can tell you for free that the tide is drastically changing against nasa. Tribal and money numbers are hard to beat. Let's wait and see.

Difference between Ole and Kadam at measuring political temperatures among their kith and kin is Ole is on the ground and Kadam is not.

If Ole says tide is shifting, then it shifted long before he said so.

[RV Pundit]

Yeap - I have spend some time in opposition zones - and the fatigues with Raila & NASA is palpable. If election are held - they were not going to turn out in real numbers. This is the very end of the road for Raila. He asked for a second bite - and the world granted him that wish - and he squandered it yet again by launching complains after complains - instead of liquidating some of his assets and campaigning like his life depended on this. People see Ruto working hard day in and day out - and they think they can just lazy walking into elections - and become PORK. Like seriously

vooke,
I am being very objective here. I really don't have a horse in this race even though I was initially sympathetic to Baba. People feel like baba has lost significant goodwill support by constantly complaining and castigated anyone one site. Alot of people feel like alot of their valuable time is being lost by constant grandstanding. Raila cannot consolidate his own areas and is busy losing battleground counties. He should have hit the ground running right away and blame his opponents for botched election. But I do think he does not have money to run an efficient campaign. His innitial attempt at fundraising was not properly done. I really think he would boycott then claim that he won on August 8th. Jubilee on the other hand will not take any chance this time. They will claim victory even if baba sits this one out. I know it's not pleasant for many baba avid supporters but his quest for statehouse is coming to a complete end.

[Fish Mooney]

I was sympathetic to Baba too but believe NASA lost on the 8th. I held on and found theirs was technicality. Raila is basically being undemocratic, but you have to realize without a path to victory sitting it out is sounder strategy. He will pull a Tsivangirai and let history be the judge.

vooke,
I am being very objective here. I really don't have a horse in this race even though I was initially sympathetic to Baba. People feel like baba has lost significant goodwill support by constantly complaining and castigated anyone one site. Alot of people feel like alot of their valuable time is being lost by constant grandstanding. Raila cannot consolidate his own areas and is busy losing battleground counties. He should have hit the ground running right away and blame his opponents for botched election. But I do think he does not have money to run an efficient campaign. His innitial attempt at fundraising was not properly done. I really think he would boycott then claim that he won on August 8th. Jubilee on the other hand will not take any chance this time. They will claim victory even if baba sits this one out. I know it's not pleasant for many baba avid supporters but his quest for statehouse is coming to a complete end.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

vooke,

I don’t see how Aukot’s inclusion changes anything.  Just from a cursory glance at that 2013 SCOK opinion.

[vooke]

vooke,

I don’t see how Aukot’s inclusion changes anything.  Just from a cursory glance at that 2013 SCOK opinion.

Babu’s realistic shot at stopping Elections was abandoning the race which would get us back to zero with nominations,which MUST be had at least 90 days to the election. But if Aukot is included, then abandoning means we still have a two-candidate race,and if Aukot abandons as well, Uhunye is declared winner of the contest.

I know the amendments attempt to deal with this 2013 advisory by declaring the remaining candidate winner in case of abandonment but I think Babu can still beat it by abandoning before the Bill is assented as I’m not sure the amendments can be applied retroactively. So amendments are not a watertight cure for the abandonment panya route

[Kichwa]

Robina, explain to me exactly how Raila is being undemocratic.  Do not get me started about Democracy in Kenya.  If you think looting the economy and using that money to rig elections is democracy then Raila does not need your sympathies and you can take them where they are needed.  Jubilee does not own Kenya and there is no way we are going to allow them to unilaterally dictate to us what Democracy means.  This is nothing compared to Kenyattaa and Moi Regimes which we survived. We will not allow Ruto's projected dictatorship to take root.  Nothing is off the table.

I was sympathetic to Baba too but believe NASA lost on the 8th. I held on and found theirs was technicality. Raila is basically being undemocratic, but you have to realize without a path to victory sitting it out is sounder strategy. He will pull a Tsivangirai and let history be the judge.

vooke,
I am being very objective here. I really don't have a horse in this race even though I was initially sympathetic to Baba. People feel like baba has lost significant goodwill support by constantly complaining and castigated anyone one site. Alot of people feel like alot of their valuable time is being lost by constant grandstanding. Raila cannot consolidate his own areas and is busy losing battleground counties. He should have hit the ground running right away and blame his opponents for botched election. But I do think he does not have money to run an efficient campaign. His innitial attempt at fundraising was not properly done. I really think he would boycott then claim that he won on August 8th. Jubilee on the other hand will not take any chance this time. They will claim victory even if baba sits this one out. I know it's not pleasant for many baba avid supporters but his quest for statehouse is coming to a complete end.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

vooke,

I don’t see how Aukot’s inclusion changes anything.  Just from a cursory glance at that 2013 SCOK opinion.

Babu’s realistic shot at stopping Elections was abandoning the race which would get us back to zero with nominations,which MUST be had at least 90 days to the election. But if Aukot is included, then abandoning means we still have a two-candidate race,and if Aukot abandons as well, Uhunye is declared winner of the contest.

I know the amendments attempt to deal with this 2013 advisory by declaring the remaining candidate winner in case of abandonment but I think Babu can still beat it by abandoning before the Bill is assented as I’m not sure the amendments can be applied retroactively. So amendments are not a watertight cure for the abandonment panya route

But if the advisory was on a constitutional question, can they cure it with a statute?

[RV Pundit]

Yeap - the purpose of legislation is to fill constitutional voids & give meaning to it. These judges are cropping in the dark because there is nothing on consitution that define how re-run will be dealt. The constitution leaves the details to election laws to be enacted.

Something would only be unconstitutional if the constitution says do this. If it doesn't - and there is no legislation - then we go by judges interpretation.

But if the advisory was on a constitutional question, can they cure it with a statute?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Yeap - the purpose of legislation is to fill constitutional voids & give meaning to it. These judges are cropping in the dark because there is nothing on consitution that define how re-run will be dealt. The constitution leaves the details to election laws to be enacted.

Something would only be unconstitutional if the constitution says do this. If it doesn't - and there is no legislation - then we go by judges interpretation.

But if the advisory was on a constitutional question, can they cure it with a statute?

I think  there is enabling law and that is what you have in mind.  The laws enable what the constitution directs.  Then there is a situation where the constitution is silent.  Can enabling law be made in a such situation?  Especially one that contradicts an interpretation of that silence that has been given by the court?

[vooke]

vooke,

I don’t see how Aukot’s inclusion changes anything.  Just from a cursory glance at that 2013 SCOK opinion.

Babu’s realistic shot at stopping Elections was abandoning the race which would get us back to zero with nominations,which MUST be had at least 90 days to the election. But if Aukot is included, then abandoning means we still have a two-candidate race,and if Aukot abandons as well, Uhunye is declared winner of the contest.

I know the amendments attempt to deal with this 2013 advisory by declaring the remaining candidate winner in case of abandonment but I think Babu can still beat it by abandoning before the Bill is assented as I’m not sure the amendments can be applied retroactively. So amendments are not a watertight cure for the abandonment panya route

But if the advisory was on a constitutional question, can they cure it with a statute?

I addressed thst in the last paragraph and said the amendment are poor remedy for the abandonment panya route.

But Aukot went to SCOK and was referred to High Court. That’s why I’m almost sure he will be included. High Court will find no reason for excluding the negro. Why would invalidation lead to a runoff?

[RV Pundit]

Judges don't make law - it parliament who makes them. Only something is unconstitutional if the constitution says so are parliament forbidden from doing that. Where it is silent - then it's job of legislation to giving meaning to that silences.

I think  there is enabling law and that is what you have in mind.  The laws enable what the constitution directs.  Then there is a situation where the constitution is silent.  Can enabling law be made in a such situation?  Especially one that contradicts an interpretation of that silence that has been given by the court?

[vooke]

I think  there is enabling law and that is what you have in mind.  The laws enable what the constitution directs.  Then there is a situation where the constitution is silent.  Can enabling law be made in a such situation?  Especially one that contradicts an interpretation of that silence that has been given by the court?

Methinks if the interpretation is well thought out,and grounded in some constitutional principles, then the law contradicting it would obviously be declared unconstitutional.

The subject interpretation from whatever angle you look at it asinine; it punishes candidates and disenfranchises their supporters for none of their fault. You lock them out of the race following invalidation. Why?

Same case applies to vacancy in Chairperson office. While it seems like Jubilee are ‘devolving’ his powers,and this may be the intent, the court that declares this amendment unconstitutional will be put to task to guide on the constitutional way forward and you can bet they will settle on a path no materially different from Jubilee

[patel]

you allow Aukot to run then you are back to Fresh Election Quagmire which require nominations and all that which the chairman Chebukati decided
to ignore...then what????? the sooner we accept the country is in a constitutional crisis the better. People should be busy setting up a caretaker government.


 

vooke,

I don’t see how Aukot’s inclusion changes anything.  Just from a cursory glance at that 2013 SCOK opinion.

Babu’s realistic shot at stopping Elections was abandoning the race which would get us back to zero with nominations,which MUST be had at least 90 days to the election. But if Aukot is included, then abandoning means we still have a two-candidate race,and if Aukot abandons as well, Uhunye is declared winner of the contest.

I know the amendments attempt to deal with this 2013 advisory by declaring the remaining candidate winner in case of abandonment but I think Babu can still beat it by abandoning before the Bill is assented as I’m not sure the amendments can be applied retroactively. So amendments are not a watertight cure for the abandonment panya route

[vooke]

you allow Aukot to run then you are back to Fresh Election Quagmire which require nominations and all that which the chairman Chebukati decided
to ignore...then what????? the sooner we accept the country is in a constitutional crisis the better. People should be busy setting up a caretaker government.

How’s that?

[Higgins the genius]

Even as institutions go, how far would the SC be willing to go, or be seen to go,as an actor in a 'political contest' without the real risk of self implosion?

[Kichwa]

Judges make law all the time. Its called case law.

Judges don't make law - it parliament who makes them. Only something is unconstitutional if the constitution says so are parliament forbidden from doing that. Where it is silent - then it's job of legislation to giving meaning to that silences.

I think  there is enabling law and that is what you have in mind.  The laws enable what the constitution directs.  Then there is a situation where the constitution is silent.  Can enabling law be made in a such situation?  Especially one that contradicts an interpretation of that silence that has been given by the court?